poindexter FORTRAN wrote to jimmylogan <=-

jimmylogan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

And again, I wasn't there, but I'm pretty sure he didn't bus in people
to protest and provide bricks to throw...

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2021/10/details-of-the-money-behind-jan -6-protests-continue-to-emerge/

I have read the OpenSecrets piece, and unless I'm misunderstanding it,
it documents where money came from to support the rally (permits,
staging, logistics, travel), not the Capitol breach itself.

Funding a rally -- even a politically charged one -- is not the same
as funding or directing the illegal actions that happened later. The
article doesn't show money flowing to people who broke into the Capitol,
nor does it establish coordination or intent for violence.

If there is evidence tying donors or organizers directly to planning or financing the attack itself, that would be a different discussion. That
is not what this article demonstrates.



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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to jimmylogan <=-

jimmylogan wrote to Arelor <=-

I don't disagree... I almost brought up the burnings and the killings
and such. Kinda odd that that's okay because it's not "DC" you know?

Which killing? George Floyd? Breonna Taylor? The people that Kyle Rittenhouse killed?

You're comparing protests against systemic racism with a violent
protest attempting to disrupt an election.

I wasn't equating causes or outcomes. My point was simply that violence, arson, and loss of life were broadly tolerated or excused in some protests, while Jan 6 is treated as uniquely defining for everyone present.

Those are different conversations, and collapsing them doesn't help clarity.



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Logic44 wrote to Gamgee <=-

Not our fault the president fulfills almost all 14 points of fascism
lol ANTIFA is an ideology, not a group. Everyone sensible is
anti-fascist, because the only alternative is fascist...

Saying someone is a fascist because they don't support Antifa is a
false binary. That's like saying someone must be a racist because
they don't fly a BLM flag. You can reject an organization's tactics
or ideology without rejecting the underlying moral concern.

As for the '14 points of fascism,'' those aren't a diagnostic checklist.
They are a descriptive framework (often attributed to Laurence Britt)
that can be selectively applied to many governments across history, left
and right. Cherry-picking overlaps doesn't establish that a country or
leader is fascist in any rigorous sense.

If we are going to use serious political terms, they should clarify
reality, not just function as insults for people we disagree with.



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I have read the OpenSecrets piece, and unless I'm misunderstanding it,
it documents where money came from to support the rally (permits,
staging, logistics, travel), not the Capitol breach itself.

Funding a rally -- even a politically charged one -- is not the same
as funding or directing the illegal actions that happened later. The
article doesn't show money flowing to people who broke into the Capitol,
nor does it establish coordination or intent for violence.

I partially agree, although it could be argued that if the persons who
later broke into the Capitol hadn't had their "logistics and travel" to the rally paid, they wouldn't have been in DC at all.


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You're comparing protests against systemic racism with a violent
protest attempting to disrupt an election.

I wasn't equating causes or outcomes. My point was simply that violence, arson, and loss of life were broadly tolerated or excused in some protests, while Jan 6 is treated as uniquely defining for everyone present.

You have the difference stated right above your response. Some people see violent protests against "systemic racism" as somehow productive uses of time and any collateral damage... arson, looting, death... as unfortunate but necessary.

They seem to totally ignore that no trials had even been held yet or that justice for George Floyd might later be served (which it indeed was)
without *any* such collateral damage taking place. They also either ignore,
or see as icing on the cake, the fact that those riots also helped shape (disrupt?) the ultimate outcome of the upcoming election.

They also ignore that the "MAGAs" spent most of the summer watching people
act out without many/any consequences and cannot (or don't want to) see
any link between that and how people might have been mislead to believe that violent actions had become acceptable.

So that all justifies the toleration and excusing of "their" side, while clutching their pearls about what the other side did.

OTOH, if you look at it without any filters, you see the actions of *both* groups as *wrong* and wonder how and why anyone was allowed to get away with those things. You *should* be wondering not only why the government put up with the Summer 2020 rioters, but also why just about everyone tied to
January 6th was pardoned.


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